Is Coffee Really Healthy?

Episode 001 · 83 min

Is Coffee Really Healthy?

A conversation with Andrew Salisbury


Coffee can be incredibly healthy if grown and processed properly - we discuss how to find truly healthy coffee with Andrew Salisbury, Founder & CEO of Purity Coffee.

In this episode of the Whomesome podcast, we chat with Andrew Salisbury, the founder & CEO of Purity Coffee, about the health benefits of coffee and how to find truly healthy coffee.

Andrew shares how he started Purity Coffee after realizing there were no coffee companies fully optimizing for health. We discuss how coffee can benefit the liver, brain, gut health and more.

Key topics covered:

  • The difference between coffee grown using regenerative, organic methods vs industrial farming techniques
  • How the coffee supply chain impacts freshness and nutritional quality
  • The roasting process – finding the sweet spot between under roasted and over roasted
  • How coffee farming methods affect the environment – the importance of bird-friendly and shade grown coffee
  • Tips for storing and preparing coffee to maximize health benefits
  • Decaf methods – which process maintains the most antioxidants
  • Andrew’s vision for improving coffee through changes on the farm level

Whether you’re a coffee lover looking to optimize your morning ritual or simply curious about the health effects of coffee, don’t miss this insightful discussion.

Use code ‘WHOMESOME20’ for 20% off your first order from Purity Coffee.


Full transcript

And we're rolling and Andrew, welcome to the Homesome podcast. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much. We're so glad to have you on here and to be able to talk about coffee because I mean, both of us are huge coffee drinkers. We're coffee snobs, actually, not just drinkers. We're snobs. Me too. I might be a little biased. So how do you make that one? Oh, this one is just a pour over, just a Chemex pour over. We are V60 people. Yeah. I use the Chemex. I use the Chemex jug to water my plants. Yeah, that Chemex people don't like hearing that. You shouldn't tell them that. I got into coffee more and more and started respecting coffee because I was living in a building and on the bottom floor there was a cafe and the cafe owner, who is now a good friend of us, was constantly testing his new coffee recipes on me because he's a barista and he's a competing barista. So every time I went there, he was offering me new recipes to try out. Try this one, try this one. Do you feel these taste nuances? But I was used to drinking gas station coffee. I didn't pay any attention to it at all. So the more he was teaching me, the more I got into it, the more I started not liking the normal coffees, the espresso, all these things, because I honestly taste like burnt rubber to me. And I realized people are very particular about their coffee, including me. And because we are also health people, then we started thinking, OK, how to make coffee healthy? Because you hear all sorts of things about coffee being polluted with pesticides, with herbicides, fungicides, insecticides, then coffee being prone to mold and all sorts of other things. So let's maybe start there. Why is Purity created and why are you interested in healthy coffee yourself? Yeah, it's an interesting story. You're talking about the barista. I mean, my background is sort of similar. I was never a huge coffee fan. I used to drink tea. You can probably tell I'm from England. My wife, on the other hand, drinks a lot of coffee. She loves her coffee. And the background is I built a company up and sold it in 2011, took a year off with my wife and three-year-old daughter. We traveled a lot. And while it was a fantastic trip, when Amber came back from the trip, she was having some real health issues. And it could be a series of things, but she was overly tired and she was self-medicating with a lot of coffee, which a lot of people do. And we had more than a few arguments because I felt like she was putting one foot on the accelerator, one foot on the brake at the same time, and she was sort of burning herself out. She was giving herself a false sense of energy by drinking the coffee and then would have crashes. So this would show up in just sort of fatigue in the morning, even after a full night's sleep. So many of the arguments we had was give up your coffee. And her response was, if you show me the evidence, I mean, real evidence, maybe I'll consider it. So probably I'm not proud of this, but to win an argument, I met two professors at the Institute of Coffee Studies in Vanderbilt, and I took them out to dinner. And I said, OK, give me the real truth about coffee and health. Is it good for you? Is it bad for you? Because a lot of people who were health conscious at the time were talking about trying to give up coffee for New Year's and that it was bad for you and they were conflating caffeine with coffee. So anyway, these professors gave me a long shopping list of all the health benefits of coffee, everything from the reduction in liver disease for every cup of coffee you drink, from the baseline you have a 20% lower chance of ever getting fatty liver, liver cirrhosis, liver disease, prevention of type 2 diabetes, three to five cups of coffee a day, and you have a 45% lower chance of ever developing type 2 diabetes. So cut a long story short, I was just blown away by this news and just thought, OK, if this is true, there's a huge gap. There's a lot of people like my wife where the doctor is saying to them, you need to give up coffee for health, and that's the furthest from the truth. So the next question sort of set me down this path, which is, OK, great, who does this? What's the very best coffee that I can buy my wife for health, and let's just move on? Who's doing all of these things that you say are important? And they would give me a list of things that I could look for in coffee, which I hope I'll tell you about today, but they couldn't tell me one company that was doing that. So I started on an initial project with Professor Adriana Farrar from the University of Brazil, and she's probably one of the top coffee scientists when it comes to coffee and health in the world. She's written three of the formative textbooks on coffee and health, consults with the World Health Organization. And I just said to her, look, if coffee is so good for you, tell me all the things that make the difference. What's the difference that makes the difference? What are the steps that matter? What should we care about if we would design a coffee just solely based on health as the North Star? And so that two months turned into 18 months, and we looked at everything from the cultivars of the coffee to altitude to soil conditions to roasting process to freshness. There was a lot of things we looked at. And we just agreed that the one thing right from the beginning, because she wasn't interested in a commercial project, from the beginning we agreed that our North Star would be to go where the healthiest coffee was regardless of price and regardless of taste. So in other words, only based on health. We didn't know if this was going to be a $200 pound bag of coffee or it could taste like ditch water. We just basically said we're going to go based on health, and then afterwards we'll find out whether this coffee is really drinkable and what we've got as a product. So that was the path that took me on to a real education about coffee and health. You said you talked to the professors, and I'm surprised that because the biggest issue with running trials on things like coffee or things like even let's say meat, there's a difference between coffee and coffee obviously and meat and meat. And you mentioned there's no companies that are actually producing good coffee. So could it be that all the trials that are showing negative health effects could be due to the low quality coffee that they're using in these trials? Yeah, there is some sort of a thing with the internet because you look very choppy to us as well. But if it happens, then let's just take the question again. So we can take the question again. Because, yeah. Okay, if it happens again, let me check the internet. It should be faster in the office, but yeah, that's right. Okay, I think it's not a problem. I can actually, if you give me, I know where my question is, where I stopped. Just to make sure it's not us, I can quickly plug in the cable to the computer. Just give me a quick one second. Great. I'd probably think maybe four or five. I mean, it wasn't ridiculous, but it was enough. And it was also, you know, K-Cup coffee. It wasn't really the best coffee for her, but it was more for the caffeine than anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. I'm probably more that level. Yeah, you look a little... the camera looks a little blurry, which is strange. And you're seeing the same thing for me as well. Ahem. Okay, your picture is a lot clearer. And whenever something technically happens here, the platform, what it does, it saves all the video itself. So we won't be losing anything. Don't have to worry about losing stuff. It's just that ZenCaster is the same and reverse. Okay, so I'm just going to take it from where we left off. Yeah, everything's frozen. I'm going to double check if the sound is recording properly. Yeah, froze for a second there. I don't know why. Again? Yeah. Because now we're on a gigabit internet, so it cannot be us. So maybe you can check your side as well, just in case, before we move on. It's slower than normal. It's only like 34 meg, I guess, which is not ridiculously fast. It should be fast enough. Yeah, 34. But your picture is getting a bit more clearer now, slightly. Okay. So let's hope everything works out. But if it doesn't, we can just do quick retakes. Yeah. So you mentioned there that you're meeting with the professors. But I guess that's the problem with running trials on coffee, because some trials show negative effects of coffee, because otherwise, why would doctors think that coffee is somehow bad? And a lot of trials show... Sorry, I'll ask you for 30 seconds. It froze again. Sure. Okay. Let's try one more time. And then maybe what I'll do is check, see. Okay, no worries. So you mentioned there that you met with the professors, but there's a difference between coffee and... So you mentioned there that you met with the professors. But what's interesting is that there has to be a reason why doctors were saying that some coffee is harmful or that coffee is harmful. I suppose it's because some trials showed that coffee is harmful, and there's a lot of trials that show coffee is not harmful. But I would guess, because you also mentioned that the professor said that there are no companies that match all these criteria and produce actually healthy coffee. So that tells you that there's a huge difference between coffee and coffee. And now I'm wondering if maybe, if not all, at least a lot of the negative health effects from different trials are actually due to low-quality coffee. I lost you for a second there, if not all. Sorry, this is I didn't. If it stops one more time, let me see if I can figure out something locally. Maybe my phone even is faster. OK, sure. But yeah, but you can you can take this question. I got it recorded anyway, so I'm going to I'm going to restate it. So the idea was that I asked if there's a difference between coffee and coffee and and that if most of the trials that show negative effects of coffee could actually be because of this, because there are they used to pass coffee in the trials. Yeah, it's a really interesting question. So coffee is one of the most well studied foods on the planet. There's 19000 studies when I first looked at this in 2016 is probably now 20, 25000. I mean, it's incredibly well studied. But a lot of the studies originally were in the 50s and 60s. And the problem with those studies is they didn't sort for the fact that when people were drinking coffee, they were also smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, not exercising. So what we knew back in the 50s and 60s, we know very differently now. And doctors wouldn't think of prescribing you a cigarette, which is what they used to do. So, you know, so so once we sorted for that and once one scientist sorted for that and recognize that we weren't taking into account cigarette smoking and we weren't taking into account alcohol abuse and we weren't taking into account lack of exercises. The results of the studies actually reversed. I mean, they didn't they weren't just slightly better. They absolutely reversed. And so we started to recognize that coffee is good for health. And I think one thing that's very important about this is these 19000 studies on coffee and health are majorly promotional about the health benefits of coffee. It's the number one antioxidant in the American diet. And what is key about this, that's all coffee. Those studies were done on Starbucks. They were done on people who are buying coffee at their local three in ones on all pharmacies. It's just so so the health benefits were really, really deep for coffee generally, when nobody was really paying attention. So what I thought was an interesting opportunity is, well, what if we made every decision based on health without compromise? Could something that's already good for you be made even better by some conscious sourcing or roasting? Is there anything that we could do to actually make a difference? So I say the summary is that those studies have reversed in terms of the health benefits of coffee. It's now pretty incontrovertible, the health benefits of coffee when it comes to antioxidants, reducing inflammation, that generically coffee. And I think we can do a better job as an industry to improve the quality of coffee for health by paying attention to it. So how does the supply chain looks like? Sorry, can you restate it again? Sorry, let's for the clip for the video. Can you state it in a way? It's like, can he give us the story about how coffee comes? Like what's the either farm to table story or the coffee or how? How is the how is how does coffee end up in our tables? Basically, don't mention supply chain. Question in my mouth. How does coffee end up on your tables basically? I think a big part of this is whether you're focused on health or whether you're focused on profit margins. So the New York spot for coffee means that there's a commodity price product. So one of the problems we've got as an industry is if you're going to get a certain amount of money for your product regardless of quality, in the case of just normal coffee, the issue is if you can reduce your cost then you increase your margins, the price that you can sell your coffee is fixed so you might as well reduce your costs. So that creates a behaviour which is really unhealthy when it comes to making those decisions that you would make if you cared about health. So I can go through some of the major ones if that's useful for you just in terms of what you should pay attention to and what actually matters. The first one, so some of these are very, very simple. So we said every decision based on health we're not going to compromise and some of those decisions were taken in a second. One of the easiest decisions is if we're buying coffee based on health should it be organic or should it be laced with pesticides and herbicides in countries that don't have the same level of oversight that the US has. So in countries where they use glyphosate and endosulfine and that sort of thing, there was a very quick decision of course it has to be organic. Then from there it goes from so your coffee needs to be organic, it needs to be specially grade. And specially grade means that they measure the defects, the primary defects in basically a handful of coffee. And so the more primary defects the lower it goes down on the rating of coffee. So specially grade is the very highest and it represents things like no broken beans, no chipped beans, no black beans which means that those beans were picked when they were overripe and over fermented. There's no green beans which means they were picked when they were underripe. There's no mold, visible signs of mold or when we're looking for specialty coffee. But a real shortcut is make sure it's specialty coffee. I mean there's a health reason why you should make sure you have coffee especially. Beyond that there's a lot to do with the fact that we found that coffee that has grown in its natural environment is more likely to be richer in the positive compounds you want. So the positive compounds, the health benefits of coffee don't come from the absence of bad stuff. I mean of course you want to avoid the bad stuff in coffee. You want to avoid mold, mycotoxins, heavy metal, pesticide residue, all these sort of things that you know that you would want to avoid. But the health benefits come from a thing called chlorogenic acids. So CGA's in coffee are the antioxidants, the polyphenols in coffee. There's a variety of things that you could look at like trigonolene, cathistol, cowiol. But mainly it's CGA's in coffee. The interesting thing about the CGA's is that it varies from crop to crop, harvest to harvest, country to country. And you can't always be sure if some coffee was high in antioxidants this season that the next season it's going to be equally high. So the only way that you can figure that out is lab test coffee from around the world. And it's sort of king of the castle. You pick the one that is highest in antioxidants. I'm going to jump in there for a second. You mentioned that the coffee has the most benefits if it's grown in its natural origins. But let's do a quick 90 degrees side turn here for a second. I was thinking, I wanted to ask about what are the dangers that coffee is facing right now? Because I know there is danger of coffee going extinct and we're constantly having to move coffee harvesting more to higher altitudes, thus moving it away from its natural growing conditions to be able to actually grow coffee. So maybe it was a it was a crudely question on my part because I'm not this deep into it. But perhaps you can paint us a picture. What are the problems that coffee farmers face in terms of the environment? It's an incredibly important point because coffee's impact on the environment is crucial. So not to go back too far, we wanted a lab test coffee to be high in CGA. So we started to recognize a pattern, which is the coffee that was highest in chlorogenic acids was looking for things that would tell us that the coffee is grown in its natural environment. So hand-picked, hand-selected or bird friendly were all sort of monikers that we could look at. Shade grown would show that it's not industrial farming. There's not rows and rows of coffee with a tractor going between them. So when we started to recognize that coffee that was grown in a regenerative organic agriculture way was better for the compounds that we cared about in coffee, we wanted to start seeing if there's anything we can do on the farm level to improve the quality of coffee. So we started working with our local farmers. About a year and a half ago we bought our first farm in Columbia. We've now invested in another farm in Columbia for the simple reason that the farmers aren't encouraged to make decisions about improving the health benefits of coffee if they're just paid based on New York spot. They're not encouraged to do a better job. So it's not in their best interests. And so what we did by investing in the farms is we've started partitioning the farms and experimenting on a soil level. The reason why this I think is super interesting and even more interesting than coffee and health is that coffee that's grown in its natural environment actually sequesters carbon from the atmosphere. Coffee that's industrially farmed means you clear-cut, as you mentioned, you move up the mountain to get cooler temperatures. What that's doing is cutting down trees and tilling the soil and releasing carbon into the soil. Oh, so the action of moving coffee plantations to higher altitudes is actually negatively affecting the environment and making it worse? Absolutely. The World Health Organization says in 2050 there will be 50 percent less Arabica coffee available. So half the coffee that's available today will be available in 2050. And you've got countries like China and Japan and India entering the market. And you've got people who are starting to recognize that coffee is a health food. So demand is going to go up and supply is going to go down. So I mean, you know, it's a crisis. We have to really focus not just on coffee and health, but coffee and health is good for the environment as well. It needs to be grown in a way that sequesters carbon. And we've been able to do some experiments on the farm level that I think are really, really interesting, like the concept of biochar. Biochar is basically I won't go into too much detail, but basically it's an additive that you put on the soil and it's a home for microbes. So the richer the soil is, the better it is at feeding the plant. We don't want to feed the plant with fertilizer. We want to feed the soil and feeding the soil then feeds the plant. Biochar has this amazing property where it actually sequesters carbon at the same level as a lot of shade trees. So we're trying to encourage farmers to plant more trees and also put biochar on their land so that we can create carbon offsets for these farmers and give them the sort of the handover of carbon offsets so they can do the right behavior, make the right decisions on their farm for health and for the environment. That's very interesting because in other media, the impression that I've gotten the way it's been served is that the environment is changing. Thus coffee farmers have to move it to higher altitudes. And this is the fault of everyone else, but the coffee farmers and they can't do anything about it. But it seems like big coffee productions are the ones that are harming all the other smaller farms and smaller, let's say, companies and smaller projects, producers, smaller producers, exactly. I think the group that's the least to blame for this are the farmers. I mean, the farmers are trying to do the best job and they're getting a fixed income for their products and they're motivated to produce that product at the lowest cost possible. I think that the reality is as long as it's a commodity product, as long as we don't recognize that it's worth paying a little bit better for higher quality, if we don't do that, if we don't get customers to recognize that coffee for health is going to be a higher quality coffee, they won't pay more and we can't then pay the farmers to encourage them to make the decisions to farm coffee for the environment and farm coffee for health. They're not incentivized. It's not like there's a lack of knowledge. They absolutely know the things that they can do in terms of putting biochar on the ground and being organic and just regenerative organic agriculture is really well understood. It's just that it's a high risk for farmers. So you could have things like, you know, if you don't spray, you could risk having very coffee, very big, which is an infestation that wipes out your whole harvest. Are you hearing a lot of background noise? I'm hearing. Yeah, I thought it was an alarm outside of your. Now it stopped. Oh, it is. OK. What could it be? This is weird. OK, I know what it is. You have to turn that down. Because I was thinking it was it was some car outside your window. No, it sounds like some bird song or something, but it's no, no, no. It was actually the because we're playing him from speakers. It was he the sound from speakers was feeding into the microphones, feeding it speakers. It was like feedback. So it's just like turn the volume down. Yeah. I mean, I can put a headset on if it's easier. Yeah. Yeah. We still need to hear him, baby. OK. Can you say something now? One, two, three, four, five, a bit louder. OK, like this. I think this is good. Yeah, I was I was wondering what this is. It sounded like a car signal. Oh, yeah. No, no, shouldn't be. Yeah. OK. OK. So just a second. And I think it's what's great about these questions is like if you're curious, if I'm not answering your question and you've got any additional questions, just shoot them and be as hard as you need to be about the reality of this, because it's we've looked at it from every angle. And if you can come up with if you've got a concern, I'm sure your your viewers have got a concern as well. So. That's awesome. So the sound jumbled my brain a bit. Now I'm quickly thinking, where do you take this next? Let's talk about the the single region. Like, let's go back to. Oh, yeah, I have a good good intro to that. And I guess this ties into what you were saying just now as well, because when I showed purity coffee, when Johnny Missy sent us the big bag of the purity coffee and it got here and we were making these, he was practicing his skills at our place one morning. And when I showed him these beans, he went to the web page and he actually smelled them and he could tell them, OK, these are probably not single origins just from the smell. And then he went to the website and he did notice that the beans are not single origin. And so I'm wondering, what is the reason that purity is not single origin and how does it tie back to this problem that we were just discussing? Yeah, so it's one of the business challenges from early on. Like what we care about the most is consistency for our customers. So single origin is a great sort of like a great thing to look for in terms of quality. It just means that you know the farm it comes from, you know that it's the quality of the farm. And so you can be assured of the standards. Now, sometimes what happens is that the coffee that is sort of blended coffee isn't of the same high quality as single origin because there's not the same transparency. What's different about our coffee is we know every single one of our farmers, we work closely with them, we put them together in a blend for the simple reason that we want to make sure that when we design a roast curve that we can play around with that so that we can get the exact compounds that we're looking for in the coffee. If we do a single origin, what it will mean as a business is that you may love our coffee flow for six months and then it'll be off sale for about four months. And if we have a huge spike in traffic, then we're not going to be able to serve our customers. So in order to have consistency and the same high level of product, we use a blended product, but we make sure that we know those farmers, we have a great relationship with them. It's like the whole Warren Buffett expression where people ask, you know, I hear don't put all your eggs in one basket. And he goes, it's okay to put all your eggs in one basket if you watch that basket very closely. We watch that basket very closely. So and another just like a hip fire question that just came up, what is the difference between Robusta and Arabica? Maybe you can explain. Yeah, Robusta is typically used as a lower quality filler coffee, so it's a little bit cheaper, is actually higher in caffeine, is actually higher in chlorogenic acids. It's just not very tasty. So the problem we've got with this is that it's a little bit like asking people to drink wheatgrass. I mean, it could be better for you, but you're not really going to change behaviors so people swap out their coffee for wheatgrass. We needed to make sure that our coffee was excellent, but that was the final pass. And the final pass with taste is that we wanted a really high quality Arabica coffee that people would enjoy as well as get the health benefits. What is the thing that affects the coffee, the taste, sorry? Well, so Robusta is a cultivar of coffee. So there's two main cultivars, this is Arabica and Robusta. Robusta is basically a more hardy plant, it survives in lower altitude, so you can plant it in more places, it's less fickle as a product. And so that's why it's used in a lot of filler coffee like India and Asia and that sort of thing. So Robusta is a very typical in England as well in the UK, most instant coffee is made from Robusta. And unfortunately, the flavor of that coffee just isn't as nice as the Arabica coffee that you're probably used to drinking. Which is why you have to mix it with a lot of sugar and milk. Yeah, which, you know, again, if you've got a health product that's incredibly good for you, you don't want to be putting in things that contaminate it in any way. But what you said is really surprising to me that Robusta is actually more healthy in some way. I didn't know that. I just figured that it's low quality coffee that's even worse for you than the normal coffee. It's a challenge. We've had hundreds of conversations about this internally in the company. Does it make sense for us to mix a little bit of Robusta with a blend so that we could create higher chlorogenic acids? But the problem is, even when we've experimented with it, it's affected the taste so much that it's just, we'd have to compromise on something, which even though it's the last pillar that we care about, which is coffee for taste, because everybody focuses on taste first, we wanted to make sure that the coffee was drinkable. And so that's one of the ironies of coffee. It's about 15% higher in chlorogenic acids. But how do the different regions, sorry, oh, sorry, sorry, something got cut off. I thought you were. Shall I go check and see if there's anything wrong with our internet? Because your image is completely frozen right now for us. Okay, give me one second. I'm going to check with the internet. Let me see if I can. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. That's the sound. I hope it's not. Well, we can use AI basically, hopefully. We can do one click louder because it was hard to hear. We can turn up the brightness so I can see it fully. Yeah, because I think the reason why I couldn't... I'm gonna come right back, but I think the reason why we couldn't connect them is... fine right Very great. Perhaps we could try that maybe. Yeah, let's try if it works. Oh, so much better. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So much better now. Okay, good. Fingers crossed. Okay, everything's recording. Perfect. So, where do we want to... Where did we leave off? What were we talking about when we got cut off? By the way, I don't see your video. I don't know whether that's... Oh? I just see a... What do you see? When a... Oh, when their internet... It says, live video will return when their internet improves. Oh, what? I mean, if you're seeing it... Yeah, we're seeing it. Everything is good on our part. Great. We see you and we see ourselves. Okay, great. Internet things. Classic. Okay, where did we leave off before we got disconnected? We were talking about Rovasta and the difference between Rovasta and Single Origin as well versus Blend. Mm-hmm. Okay. I'm thinking of circling back to... quickly to the farming practices. Or do you have... What's your idea? I was going to actually jump to the... after the farming, like what happens after the coffee has been harvested and then what's the... What is the next journey for the coffee basically? Let's go there. Once the coffee has been harvested from the farmers, what is the next step of the coffee journey? Because I've also heard things like it takes nine to ten months for the coffee beans to reach the consumer from the farmer, which is a ridiculous amount of time. I know that purity doesn't take that long. Yeah. I think the standards of food practices are really important. So one of the problems we've got in Latin America is that we're not following... The food practices are not necessarily followed on a farm. So in other words, people aren't using gloves and they're not making sure that mold never develops on the beans. And one of the problems with that is that when the coffee is shipped for a long time, especially if it's coming from Asia, for example, there's a lot of mold that can develop on the coffee. So we need to follow really good food standards on the farm level because the impurities of coffee all start on the farm and then they go from there and they get exasperated and made worse. So we have to make sure that things like mold and mycotoxins never develop on the coffee in the first place. And also the quality of the picking is at a very high level. When you pick coffee, you can pick... Industrial farming, for example, they will take a tractor, which is sort of like an inverted U-shaped tractor that will go between the coffee trees and they'll pick all the coffee beans at the same time. And that's the most cost-effective way of doing it. And then they'll sort the coffee for the ripe, the underripe, and the overripe coffees and try and sort them out. The problem with that is the picking process basically takes leaves and twigs and overripe and underripe and tries to sort it. And it's a little bit like putting a fresh strawberry in a vat of... or actually a moldy strawberry in a vat of fresh strawberries. The end result is the whole vat of strawberries gets moldy very quickly. Mold can never develop in coffee at any stage, and so we have to create standards to make sure that that doesn't happen. And is it true that mostly all the coffees in a supermarket, let's say, the ones that are already pre-ground and in those bricks, is it true that most of them, if not all of them, are already moldy the moment you buy them, you bring them home and you open up? I honestly can't speak to that. We've tested 49 different coffees that represent about 80% of coffee drinkers in the US, and we tested for things like heavy metal and mold and that sort of thing. And I can tell you that it's prevalent enough that people should be making sure that their coffee is mold-free. But I mean, coffee, the message, honestly, is that coffee is generally very good for you. And I don't think... The issue isn't mold. The issue is... And, of course, mold should never develop in coffee in any stage of the process, but the issue is when that mold turns to mycotoxins, that you have things like ocrotoxin A and other issues. So it's just one of the things that we focus on. And to be honest, it's one of the lowest bars. I mean, I really hope that every coffee company would just spend the money, which is... I mean, it's probably the cheapest test we do, is around $150 for a whole container of coffee, to spot-check it to make sure that it's free from mold and mycotoxins. Every company should do this, and we should stop the conversation about mold in coffee. I mean, it's just a very frustrating thing that people are still talking about something which really should not be discussed in the food product. Because it's not tolerated in any other foods at all. And the standards in the US are different than the standards in Europe and Asia, where the coffee would be rejected for things like ocrotoxin A in Europe and Asia, and they're not rejected in the US. And so one of the problems is you become sort of a clearinghouse for coffee that is a little lower standard. Now, again, we haven't tested every coffee in the world. I mean, coffee is generally very good for you. And if your body tolerates it, fantastic. But we have patients, or we have coffee drinkers who are patients, who are cancer patients, who are in recovery, who have got real health concerns. So it's really important for us as a company that we make the decisions that are for health. And every other coffee company should make their own decisions. But I just feel like this is such an easy thing to fix. It's requiring the farmers to have food safety practices and at the same time testing for it so that the farmers understand that this is something that consumers require in their coffee. And let's move on to the much more important conversations about what we can do with coffee to improve its health benefits and also grow coffee that's good for the environment. The great thing about coffee being good for some individuals and not being good for other individuals is that you can actually somewhat test for that with a genetic test. I know because they have already identified the few S&Ps, which they call it in the genetics test, the snippets, that tell you how you metabolize coffee. And ironically, I'm an ultra slow coffee metabolizer, which is like the bottom 7% of the population. And for me, for my genetics, it has been shown that coffee can even, instead of boosting your athletic performance, it can hinder athletic performance. And this is also one of the reasons I love my coffee, but I've limited my coffee consumption to one maximum two cups per day and never after 3 p.m. Because if I do that, I'm going to not be able to sleep, which is going to cause me to overconsume the next day. And it's a vicious cycle that I've been in because my background is film production and movies production. And I remember clearly in 2014 when I was in Amsterdam on a film set for a month straight, downing 7, 8, 9 cups of coffee on set from a plastic, you know, this like water cooler plastic cups, the worst ones, the white ones, with hot piping hot coffee inside them, getting all the good endocrine disruptors and the low quality coffee in me, just downing them, not being able to sleep and just repeating the next day constantly. Fortunately, smarter now, and hopefully people who are listening to this podcast also know that you can certainly have too much of a good thing in that sense. But I guess my question here is, what I want to take this is that in our circles, in the biohacking circles and in the health people circles, it's often claimed that when you get the coffee chillers, it's not the caffeine, but it's actually the mycotoxin and pesticides. And maybe you can speak to that if you're familiar with these claims and how much truth is in there. Yeah. And just your original point, I mean, there's fast metabolizers, slow metabolizers of caffeine. And so you're a slow metabolizer, sorry, you're metabolizing coffee slowly. So it's taking a long time to leave your body. And so you're much more sensitive to caffeine. But the interesting thing about coffee is that obviously coffee and caffeine are two very different things. You should be conscious about your caffeine intake, but the chlorogenic acids and the good compounds that come from coffee, you can get in decaf if they decaffeinate you the right way. So, I mean, I'd experiment with mixing a little high quality decaf with your coffee because you'll get all the antioxidants, but not the same level of caffeine. So it's worth looking at. Nessus? I've been drinking the decaf purity and it's really good. What's your take on regular coffee during pregnancy? Yeah. And if you want, I can talk as well about the last question. Sorry, I didn't get a chance to answer that. The last question about you were saying that the jitters and nervousness and whether people think that's... So this is one of these things that was an unintended consequence of making every decision based on health. We didn't know when we looked at our business making every decision this way whether people would notice a difference. In fact, we probably thought it was more like a supplement or a fish oil or something like that, that you would trust the company and you would trust that they would do those things to make those decisions for health, but you wouldn't actually be able to tell in your body. And what's really interesting and very cool about this whole thing is that in six years we've now got 34,000, I think is the latest, 34,000 five-star testimonials on our site. And it's all about that people feel differently as a result of drinking the coffee. So we didn't set out to make that happen. We didn't even think that that would happen, but the unintended consequence, and we're very happy about it, is that people can recognize what really good, clean, high-quality coffee does in your body. Now, the truth is we don't know exactly why. I mean, we're on the first rung of the ladder when it comes to coffee and health. We don't know whether it could be the pesticide residue that's on the coffee. We don't know whether people are sensitive to over-roasted coffee to make coffee taste the same. We don't know whether it's the mycotoxins, okratoxin A, and some of the moulds that could come from poorly processed coffee. We don't know if it's coffee that's staling. The caffestol and the cow oil, which are the lipids on the coffee, stale after about 15 days, and a lot of people are drinking stale coffee. So we don't know the real impact. We just know that if we make every decision based on health and we don't compromise, then it results in people feeling a lot better and they can recognize it in their body. So one day maybe we'll be able to sort for and understand exactly what the difference is that makes the difference. But for now, we just know that you just have to be consistent across all of these things. And I think the bottom line is people are different. There's different sensitivities. Some people are very sensitive to mould and mycotoxins. Other people less so. And maybe it's pesticide residue that's their particular problem. So the truthful answer to your question is we don't know exactly why. We just know that it creates that result. And I also love that you mentioned decaf coffee because I do drink decaf. And I also know or I think I know that there are certain practices that decaffeination basically, or I don't even know what the process is called. Methods. The methods, yes, exactly, of how you make coffee decaf are very, they can be very different. And some of them are done in a healthy way and some of them are not so healthy. Could you tell us some examples of what I know there's Swiss water, there is CO2 process, and then there's also some other chlorination and some other processes? Which ones are good, which ones should people look for, and which ones to definitely avoid? Yeah, there's four different processes to caffeinate coffee. And the starting point, I think, which is really important is we've got to use the best processes. So the best processes would be critical CO2 or Swiss water process. The ethyl acetate and other chemicals that they use as a way of decaffeinating coffee, introduce chemicals into your coffee and also leach the positive compounds that you want in your cup. So they leach the chlorogenic acid. So you lose a lot of those. So if all the work was done correctly and you've got this fantastic cup of coffee, but then you use ethyl acetate to decaffeinate your coffee, then you're really doing yourself a lot of harm in the sense that you're not retaining the positive compounds that you could have had. But the starting point is that unfortunately most decaffeinated coffee is an afterthought. Truthfully, you don't get that fantastic, amazing coffee that's sent to decaffeination. You get the coffee that's nine months old, that's going stale, that they say, OK, let's just send this lot for decaffeination. So the process is one thing, but the quality of coffee is another. I believe that we're the only Smithsonian bird-friendly organic coffee sold in the US right now. Only bird-friendly, specially organic coffee sold in the US. So the quality of coffee makes a big difference when it comes to your health and the way that you decaffeinated it is important. Plus, we want to encourage people to drink more coffee, but not necessarily more caffeine. Can you elaborate on what you just said, bird-friendly coffee? I've never heard about that before. So we decided early on that we were going to be looking for certain labels that would indicate that the coffee has grown in its natural environment. One of the best ways to do that and the best certifications that exist for coffee is a thing called Smithsonian bird-friendly. So Smithsonian bird-friendly has all sorts of criteria for the number of trees on your farm, the altitude. But really what they're looking for is that your farm can be home to migratory birds. So what does that tell us? It tells us that if a bird, a migratory bird, wants to stop on that farm, build a nest and then move on later, that it's going to be grown, that coffee is grown in its natural environment. So we would look for that label. It's a very, very high standard because it would represent that that coffee was grown in its natural environment. So while we cared about the environment and we certainly cared about migratory birds, it wasn't our North Star. Our North Star was to find coffee that was high in chlorogenic acids. The very best way to do that was to look for a label like Smithsonian bird-friendly or hand-picked, hand-selected, shade-grown. All of these sort of monikers, all these labels would indicate that the coffee is grown in a way that was going to create more chlorogenic acids in the coffee. That's amazing. I've never heard of that bird certification. Makes me think of the... We had to do a lot of things differently. I mean, when you talk about sort of like a coffee blend versus single origin, I mean, when you have a different lens and you say every decision based on health, certain things that are industry standards don't become the standards that you want to follow if you care about health because people aren't really... Not enough of them are buying coffee based on health. Not enough farmers are making the decisions that they would do on a local level to impact the quality of coffee for health. And that's also the problem with a lot of certifications because certifications are mostly sold and just bought. And they don't follow up if you actually follow these production practices. And if you have different kinds of approaches and you don't even care about the certifications, I guess that's a big, let's say, not a benefit, but what's the word we're looking for? No, not loophole. Big plus points, like plus points on your side, you know, that really works in your favor, that you can make your own way. And you don't have to follow this traditional way of chasing these basically certifications that don't mean anything. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of movement in the industry to help the farmers to have more of a living wage, which is absolutely valid and very important. But the way they do that is almost like direct sort of contribution. But they're not actually helping the farmer make more of a living wage because of the sort of problems with spot grading coffee or the New York Sea price for coffee. It's a fixed price. And the very best way for us to create more income for the farmers is so that people recognize that not all coffee is created equal. And a better quality coffee is going to be a little bit more expensive. It's going to require a little bit more in terms of steps. If we can encourage people to pay for coffee that is of a better quality, it'll trickle down to the farmer who's going to get more of a living wage for doing the right thing. And even in Estonia, where we are right now, it's unfortunate that purity doesn't ship to Europe just yet, because I would order a bunch. I hope that happens soon. But we were looking at the pricing's and purity is not that much more expensive. It's even more affordable than many of these other specialty coffees that baristas use. But when we're talking about baristas already and going that way, I took us that way. I've noticed that purity coffee, even though maybe it's because I'm in Europe and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but that the US medium roast is darker than European medium roast. Is that correct? And if I want to get light roast, do you actually have these like European light roast in your selection? The lightest roast we have is the protect coffee. And so what we try to do is we measure every single compound that we care about in the roast and we design a roast that has different benefits. So there's a sweet spot that you want to stay between. There's guardrails that you want to stay between. In the early stage of roasting, you create a negative compound called acrylamide, which you get from any sort of toasted food like toast and french fries, that sort of thing. I'd say it has a marginal impact on health, but there's a lot of talk about acrylamide being cancer causing. So we pay attention to acrylamide in the early stage of the roasting. And then the darker you roast the coffee, you create a thing called PAH, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which you get from any burnt food. And the temptation for a lot of coffee companies, especially if they're national, international coffee companies, is to make their coffee taste uniform. And the very best way for them to make their coffee taste uniform is over roast the coffee so you're tasting burnt coffee. So it's creating this negative compound, a dark roasted coffee. But you love it because the coffee in Singapore tastes the same as the coffee in Seattle. And you get used to, or some people get used to, the burnt taste. And then the final thing is there's a curve that goes down, which is the antioxidants and the chlorogenic acids, how they drop off over time. So in a roast curve, if you over roast the coffee, you're over roasting all of the positive compounds once you create PAH. So we try to find that sweet spot. And I know that is probably shorter, that that range is shorter than most coffee companies. So we don't have a very dark roasted coffee or a very light roasted coffee for those specific reasons. We try to stay between them. So the Protect Coffee is our lightest coffee and the Ease is our darkest coffee. But it's because of the compounds that we're trying to maximize. Like, for example, in a dark roasted coffee, chlorogenic acids turn into a thing called chlorogenic lactones. So the more chlorogenic acids you have, eventually they convert to chlorogenic lactones. Now you want the chlorogenic acids, but chlorogenic lactones are very good for blood brain barrier and also for gut health. So if you're sensitive to coffee, the darker roasted coffee is better as long as it's in that range. But perhaps you can take us through your line and the thought process that went into when integrating these coffees, because the Protect Coffee that you mentioned, which is the lightest roast, it says on the package that it's liver coffee and it's beneficial for a liver. And so what is the what is the thought process on these three different roasts? And is it just the taste difference then? Or do they actually have then different compounds and different functions in terms of health? Yeah, a lot of what we do is we want to create awareness about the health benefits of coffee. And when I say that, I mean coffee in general. So coffee has been shown to have huge health benefits when it comes to liver. So Dr. Sanjeev Chopra, who's on our advisory board, he was the last dean of admissions at Harvard Med School. He's a liver surgeon and he says in 35 years of doing the rounds with liver patients, he's never seen anybody with end stage liver disease or liver cirrhosis who drinks three to five cups of coffee a day. So shocking. I mean, he's one of the healthiest things. Coffee in general is one of the healthiest things that you can drink when it comes to liver health. Now, of course, avoid the bad stuff, try and get more of the good stuff. But it's very, very healthy for the liver. What we try to do is we try to lean into the science. So we get really good advisors like Adriana and Dr. Chopra to look at what compounds the studies show are the things that we would want to increase in the roast. So the one thing with with our Protect Coffee, which is around liver vitality, is we want to create awareness that coffee is incredibly good for the liver. But the more chlorogenic acids that you have in that particular coffee, and this is a case of a lighter roast, the better it is for liver health. So we also look at other compounds like caverns, stolen cow, which are the lipids on the coffee that have been shown to be very positive with with liver health as well. Another thing that's really discussed quite a lot is coffee and cholesterol. And I heard things that you should filter your coffee through paper if you have high cholesterol or not drink it like straight up like an espresso. Do you do you have insights on cholesterol and coffee? Yeah, it's so I'm not a doctor. Big disclaimer here. I mean, so the the the I know there is a mixed argument about the impact of cholesterol on overall health. I know some people want to avoid cholesterol in food and other people say that they're just sort of like the fireman going to an area of inflammation to put out the fire. That's not my area of specialty. I do know that when it comes to making your coffee, if you use a paper filter, you'll capture many of the lipids, the catheter on the cow yoke that are on the coffee that could increase a spike in cholesterol. If that's something that you're concerned about, then use a paper filter. If if you want some of those compounds for particularly for liver health, I would say a French press. But again, you know, that's that's your decision about, you know, the importance of of of fats in your diet as it compares to overall health. Yeah, it seems to me that what you do outside of your morning coffee routine might actually have a bigger weight on your cholesterol levels rather than that cup of coffee. So when I'm going back to it's been very well supported. I mean, coffee and health is incredibly well supported. So in the end, you could pass it and look at individual compounds and say, is this bad for you? Is this good for you? But in the end, you have to look at the 19,000 studies that have been done. Many of them appear reviewed to say that coffee is just shown to be incredibly healthy in terms of of of a beverage to consume. And it can be made healthier. So it just feels like, you know, we can we can we do concentrate on those individual compounds. But I think generally it's important that people understand that coffee is good for health. So when I am pouring my V60 in my morning in my mornings during morning time. By pouring it through the paper filter, by filtering through the paper, I am losing some of the beneficial compounds then, right? Well, yeah, if you see them as beneficial, I mean, you know, the caffestole and the cow oil lipids that are around the coffee, you don't ever want those lipids to become stale. Now they become stale if if you've got, you know, fresh roasted coffee that is in a bag, it's not nitrogen flushed. It's more than 15 days old. A lot of store bought coffees would fall into that that criteria. And then the problem is the lipids, the oils on that coffee are becoming stale and rancid. And so that's probably where at least some of our customers are getting their health issues from. So a paper filter would be better if you're going to be drinking that sort of coffee. So I think it would be better to use a paper filter to make sure that you're not ingesting stale lipids. But on the other hand, you know, if you're getting coffee that is freshly roasted within 15 days, I mean, I think the lipids on the coffee have been shown to be very healthy. And in that spirit, what is the healthiest preparation method for coffee if there is any? And also storage. If I buy a bag of purity coffee, how do you have to store it? Yeah, I don't think you should put it in the freezer. I've heard that before. Why would you put it in a freezer? That doesn't sound like a good idea. Yeah, water is the enemy of coffee. I mean, so, you know, that's why you wouldn't want to put it in a freezer. You wouldn't want to make it more humid. What you want to do is is an air scape type of container. Take a bag of coffee, put it in an air scape container and keep the oxygen out. But there's not much that you can really do when it comes to freshness apart from buying fresh coffee. So, you know, in our particular case, you order the coffee within a day or two. It's been sent to you. So the speed and we pay a lot of attention to how quickly we can get a coffee roasted for you and then sent on its way. So you'll typically receive your coffee within two days. So freshness is super important. Then then we nitrogen flush the bags. And that means that's an inert gas. And it means that the coffee isn't going to stale until you open that bag of coffee. So that's important. You know, the coffee could sit around in your kitchen for a couple of months. It'll still be fresh. But the moment you open that bag, you're releasing the oxygen into that bag. And you're going to start to see a staling around 15 to 20 days when there's going to be a diminishing return on those health benefits of that coffee. So freshness is important. And that's one of the reasons why we don't grind coffee. I mean, again, this is one of these decisions that, you know, 80 percent of coffee sales are typically in ground coffee. It's more convenient. It's easier. But the problem with ground coffee is you increase the surface area on the coffee, and that means that it stales quicker. So there's a sort of like a rule of 15. The idea is green coffee is fresh for 15 months. Roasted coffee is fresh for 15 days when you open the bag. But once you ground the coffee, then it's about 15 minutes before you start to get staling. So if you're buying a bag of coffee that's already ground, the problem is that the first part is going to be fantastic. But afterwards, you're going to start to see any diminishing returns on freshness. And they figured that's the reason as well why you're not shipping currently to the EU. Yeah, we need to have a local roaster. We would need to do things. We would ship directly from the farms to the EU and then also roast locally. But yeah, that is the complexity of doing it right now is a little bit challenging. But going back to the healthy aspect, healthiness aspect of storage and preparation methods, is it then that smaller bags and more frequently are preferable to just buying a huge bag? Because you're getting fresh coffee more frequently. Yeah, I think it just depends on your coffee consumption. In our household, we go through a five pound bag of coffee in a couple of weeks. We're big coffee drinkers, so that's fine for us. We drink our coffee way before it's likely to ever stale. But we also have customers that just drink decaf and a bag of coffee will last them a month and a half. So I think it's personal preference. But I think the maximum five pound, I think that's a safe bet where you can drink enough coffee where it's fresh. Because I'm the only one in the office who was drinking that coffee and I had a five pound bag. And it did take me a month because I limited myself to a cup a day. I still have some beans left in a jar there. But I was just wondering if that's the wrong thing to do. It's the wrong way to go about then. But in terms of me keeping coffee in a jar, do the beans react to UV light in any way with the sun shines on them? Should I be careful with that? Yeah, it's just like any food product, natural food products. I mean, I would want to keep it away from direct sunlight. So, you know, this part of the business, we talked about a lot because if we make every decision based on health and then the final mile, people do something that hurts the coffee, we want to be involved. I mean, we want to be involved to say, look, you know, ground coffee is not the best way forward or, you know, keeping the coffee beyond the level where it's likely to stale. That's not the right plan. But I also think that it's not our job to tell people how to drink their coffee because coffee is generally very good for them. And they should find ways that they can drink as much coffee as they possibly can. So, you know, I think all of those methods are good. I mean, you know, everything from cowboy to espresso to French press to, you know, they're all positive. They all have different benefits. Espresso is a great way to extract more chlorogenic acids. But a lot of that is to do with the volume of the finished drink. French press, fantastic for all of the different compounds that you want in the coffee. But if you're concerned about lipids, then you want to potentially have a paper filter and do a pour over. So, I mean, there's just lots of methods and we try not to get too involved apart from letting people know, you know, what's the best way to prepare our coffee in their manner that they like. I do French press and they laugh at me. They never do that. They just gave you a really good French press recipe that I found off YouTube. You have to do it in a special way. I like that. Yeah. But I found this coffee YouTuber and he says that most people are using French press wrong. You shouldn't actually push it down. You just like let it sit there and then pour through the filter. Because if you push it down, something bad happens to the taste. Not not my words, his words. I think it's called the greatest French press recipe on YouTube if you look for it. Yeah, I, you know, I think whatever you whatever way you like your coffee, fantastic. I mean, the pressure is part of the reason why the coffee toast tastes so great. So that's what happens in the extraction with, let's say, espresso. It's just the pressure that is put under and you alter the pressure to alter the taste. So the same thing with French press. The pressure of where you're basically putting the plunger down on the coffee impacts the taste of the coffee. So yeah, but you know, you say that we have no business in like telling people how they should drink their coffee. But we had a couple of friends tell us that we ruined coffee for them because now they can't get like good coffee outside where they used to go to their usual coffee store, you know, and get the coffee. Now they're like, tastes like burnt rubber, you are right. And that's the thing. I think. Yeah. Sorry. And I really feel that my coffee consumption method is now a part of my identity, which I really protect. And I get offended and I start telling people what to do. But where do you see you taking purity now? What are the next steps? How can you get all the people in the world drinking healthy coffee? What's the plan? The big plan? My goal is to spend more time on the farm. I think that we're we're at a very interesting stage because we're looking at coffee with a new lens. We're looking at coffee based on health and we're looking for those compounds that improve health. There's things that we can do on a soil level and on a cultivar level that impact the health benefits of the coffee. So it's sort of one hand washes the other. I think as as our customers become more aware that not all coffee is created equal, that the health benefits of coffee are meaningful and you should pay attention to your cup of coffee. They'll start to recognize that coffee that's grown in its natural environment is not only good for their health, but also good for the environment. And I feel like that's a really good symbiotic sort of like everybody wins, you know. And so what we'd like to do is start experimenting more on the farm level and working with partners, people who've already got their audience who are health conscious so that we can empower them to have really healthy coffee. So it's sort of like the concept of powered by purity. What we want to do is we want to find companies that have their own audience and give them a coffee solution while we're improving the product itself on a farm level. That's amazing. And we definitely like I think it was the it was the coffee video that we released on TikTok, which is basically like me saying stop drinking coffee on an empty stomach. That was for women because I work with women on helping them to balance their hormones. And in some cases, it's actually it's actually not good for women to be drinking coffee first thing in the morning. Like they should they should have something else in their stomach first. And that video like blew up. I think I don't know how many million views that has. So people are definitely curious about, you know, about coffee and the benefits, the health benefits. And also when they hear something controversial like don't drink it on an empty stomach, they're drawn to it. Years per cup. But I think it's so interesting because, you know, this is a behavior that we do every single day. It's a supplement that you'll never forget to take. So, you know, if you're doing it every single day, it's like the conversation about, you know, eggs is another category that we should all be looking at. Coffee, eggs, you know, anything that we're doing consistently, we should be trying to improve that quality of that product that we're doing consistently. Because by its very nature, we're going to have more of a leverage based on that because we're focusing on the thing that makes the difference. Is there anything we haven't touched on that we should have touched on? And that is a great piece of knowledge that our listeners need to know. We've talked about the roast curve. We've talked about freshness. We've talked about what we would do on the farm level. I just say, you know, paying attention to how they feel. And this is true of any food, but particularly with coffee. You said, you know, we ruin people from other coffees. And the reason for that is because they drink our coffee, they feel a certain way and they drink it for a couple of weeks and they go to the normal coffee. That's when they come back to us. When they come back to us is when they recognize that bad coffee makes them feel bad. Bad coffee gives them the jitters, nervousness. And so I would say that people should pay attention to how they feel. And if you're feeling jittery, nervous, anxious, you know, acid reflux, you know, all of this is a representation that something is going wrong with your coffee. It's just that simple. If you've got sensitivity, if you're a canary in the mine when it comes to the coffee you drink and you can't enjoy your coffee and you can't drink it because your doctor asks you, you suggest you not to. Before giving up on coffee, try a really good coffee and see how your body feels. And here you can take up and here you can take an idea out of the street dealer's playbook. The first one's free and just get them hooked on your coffee. Yeah. And look, I mean, it's not a there's going to be a lot of competition in this market. And I hope there is. I mean, there's going to be a lot of people focusing on this, you know, rising tide lifts all boats. But it's but some of these basic things every coffee company should do. So, you know, it's it's, you know, we expect we hope that the market is going to improve the quality of the coffee that they give people as a general rule. And then everybody benefits the farmer benefits the Earth benefits because we're farming in a more environmentally friendly way. And then, you know, the consumer benefits. So I guess it's also the voice of the consumer that matters if they keep on asking for these things, if they keep on asking for that. Yeah. And this comes back full circle to what we're doing now. Education and everyone wins. Perfect. And I think also it's important. No, no, no. Continue. I was just going to say, I think it's important that we ask for validation as well. I mean, a lot of this this, you know, transparency is important that we do the tests that we show this test to the customers if they're interested and they're curious. You know, it's important that we do those things behind the scenes that give our customer security that the coffee they're drinking is going to be of a very high quality. You know, so, you know, that's that's probably one thing that I would encourage everybody as a consumer to look for is just ask your coffee company what they test for. You know, and make it something that you require, at least on a basic level, just on a very basic level, just testing for mold and mycotoxins and heavy metals and pesticide residue. And I personally wouldn't drink a coffee that isn't organic, but that's just me. You know. Perfect. Andrew, it's been a great pleasure having on such a great conversation. Learned a lot of things about coffee. I thought I knew everything, but turns out they didn't. And it's a deep subject. Really fun. It really is. It really is. And I really, really hope to see you finding a roaster in Europe so we could get more of our purity fix. Yeah, that's an official request. We'll send you some coffee. I've got a brother in England, so I'm sure we can get you some coffee as well when you need it. Perfect. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. We had a lot of fun here. One last thing before we sign off. Do you have any asks for the audience? Any links? Any resources to send them to direct them to? Oh, yes. So who set this up? Was this Miriam? Not Miriam. It could be Melissa or it could be Melissa. Could you ask Melissa for a code for your customers? Now, is this podcast? The problem is it's only going to be limited to the US. Oh, we have a code already. We have a code set up. Yeah. Okay. We're all set up. Yeah. But if you would want to share something, you know, a place, a website to send people to learn more about purity and coffee in general. Wait. Yeah. Well, what we could do, we could just like say our code out loud. I think our code was Homesome. Was it? Yeah. Our code is like Homesome as our channel name anyway. And do you have a discount for your customers then? Yeah, we do. Yeah, we have the we well, we could probably when we launch this video, we have the 20% off and we had a 30% off for limited time, like a quick one. But I don't this is such a long tail video. So 20% off for this long tail video would work more well than having a short term 30%. I think that's the challenge. Once the 30% gets out there and it will very quickly, that becomes the new price. And so we can do it sort of sporadically for a short period of time. But it can't be out there for very long because it just becomes, you know, exactly the expectation, the norm. So we have a 20% discount code that is perpetual and 20% off the first order. That's the one we have. Perfect. I think that's a good start. Yeah. So maybe maybe you can answer the question in a way that they can head to and you can allude that we also have our discount code. Then I'm going to share the discount code and or if you have any other resources or pages to send them to maybe like tell them like go check out the studies page or or something like that, whatever you think is best. Great. Yeah. If you want to ask me the question. So and before we wrap up completely, do you have any resources or any websites to point the audience to to learn more or any asks of the audience? Yeah, I mean, this is a very deep subject and I would just go to and look at the blog posts. Look at the discussions that we have on regenerative farming and just about the compounds in coffee we're trying to maximize. Take the time just to look at those those blog posts because I think that'll give you the sort of the right direction in terms of choosing coffee for your health, which I think is important. Regardless of whether you buy our coffee or another coffee, just look for certain compounds or certain certain decisions that were taken on a farm level. And then I think you have a discount code for people who want to try it for the first time. Yes, it would be great. Our discount code is home some just like the channel name, just like the podcast name W H O M E S O M E. And that's going to give all the listeners 20 percent of their first order. Fantastic. Yeah, fantastic. And take your time to read some of the testimonials as well. They should be searchable based on on on certain issues that people are dealing with in terms of health issues and that sort of thing. I just think it's I think our attention to coffee is probably one of the most impactful things that we can do for overall health and longevity when it comes to what diet. So I'm particularly passionate about the subject. Perfect. So are we. We're passionate about consuming coffee and health. So a good good golden trial here. Perfect. It's been so much fun and hopefully we'll get to do this again soon. Yeah, and we'd love to have you back. Let me know if you want. Yeah, I'm happy to get on at a different time when I'm back at the house and with a better connection and stuff and do some different questions if that's useful. Just just let me know. Definitely, because I think we're going to have a lot of questions after this episode that are coming from our audience as well. So we can definitely go for a round two and have fun at the round two. Perfect. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Wait, don't sign off yet. I'm going to stop the recording and we have to wait for it to upload and say that everything is uploaded. Perfect. It's north of Bogotá, it's in the coffee district, it's an area, the town is called Petalito. It's probably the favorite place in the world for me. I love Colombia. Do you spend a lot of time there yourself? Maybe three times a year, but I want to be spending more time. I mean that's sort of the goal, I'd like to be spending more time on the farms. I think that's where the interesting stuff is going to be happening in the next few years. Colombia is a great resource.